THE ARCHBISHOP of YORK - The Most Revd John Sentamu Talks to Identity

What were your ambitions as a child in Uganda?  Do you feel your early introduction to religion influenced these?

Originally I wanted to be a doctor but God obviously had other plans for me ! I enjoyed my parts in school plays and productions and had opportunities for professional development, but decided against it. In the end I read Law and became an advocate of the High Court of Uganda, until the brutal regime of Idi Amin made it unsafe for me to stay.

With the well documented increase in antisocial behaviour, there has for some time now been growing concern that Britain’s youth has lost its way. Would you suggest a link between this state of affairs and the fact that fewer and fewer children are being given a religious upbringing?

I think there are fundamental issues of respect that need to be addressed here. If we, as adults, expect young people to be respectful, we should show respect. If they are not treated lovingly and forgivingly, they will be unforgiving. If we do not trust them, they will not trust us. The word ‘respect’ literally means to ‘look back’. We need to look back with humility and attentiveness in order to assess adequately the present – and have a realistic hope for the future. What are young people going to see when they look back? My mother taught me that when you point the finger accusingly at someone else, there are three more fingers pointing back at you.  So, if we want to be treated with respect, we must show respect.

Recent figures show that fewer and fewer people in this country are making their way to the pews of C of E churches on Sunday morning. Why do you think that this is the case and how worried are you about it?

 Church is not just a Sunday business or a weekend affair. Jesus Christ transforms lives! We don’t have a once a week God so why should we be once a week worshippers? Many churches now operate services throughout the week and for many, especially those based in and around city centres, their mid-week congregations exceed their Sunday congregations.

What would you rather see - people in this country following other religious movements besides the Church of England or subscribing to no faith at all?

According to the last Census about 72% of this country are Christian. When other faiths such as Islam, Sikhism, Judaism and Hinduism are added in the figure goes up a further 6%. So between us the faith communities in this country account for almost 8 out of every 10 people you meet. Certainly I think that people of faith have the potential for a greater lectionary of commonality, but I don’t think that means that those without faith shouldn’t be loved or valued equally as well. Although they refuse to believe it, Jesus died for them as well. As a Christian I strongly believe that Jesus died for all people; He is the saviour of the world. It would be good if all people got to know him now as he will be their judge in the world to come.

Your appointment as the first black Archbishop in the Church of England received a great deal of media attention. Has your racial background presented you with any particular challenges?

Do you know what a typical Anglican looks like? Statistically speaking a typical Anglican is a black female in her 20s. Not quite the picture you were expecting? There is more to me than my colour. First I am a Christian, secondly I am a man, thirdly I am an African. God created me in his own image just as he created you. Thankfully God knows something about the joy of variety! I have no way of knowing what my life would have been like if it had been lived in a different coloured skin. The greatest threat to my life – which came from the Amin regime - came about not from my colour, but from my beliefs as a Christian and practice as a lawyer.

Twenty years ago your home was targeted by arsonists allegedly linked to the National Front. Have you ever experienced racism from within the Church?

The Church is a global phenomenon filled with ordinary people like you and me. The only difference is that as a member of the body of Christ you get things wrong like other people do, but through a loving, living relationship with Jesus you strive to live a life that gets things right. Not because of rules, but out of deep appreciation for the love that God shows daily. The Church is filled with people from society and inevitably reflects some of the same attitudes from time to time. Our challenge as a Church, as a body of people, is to show that the Church universal, as is already happening in many places in local churches, is a place where all can feel like they have come home and like they belong.

Religious tolerance and integration have been much discussed issues in the news after the incident with the Danish cartoon and the Pope’s comments about the Prophet Mohammed. Do you have a vision of all the world’s religions uniting on the Mount of Olives or do you hope for something less profound than that? 

Jesus died for all people, not just for those who claim him as their own. When the day of judgement comes it is for God alone to draw the circle of His grace and to mark its line of inclusivity. Our task on earth is to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with the Lord our God. This includes loving our neighbours, neighbours of all faiths and of none. 

When, in 1977, your friend Archbishop Janani Luwum was murdered you said, ‘You kill my friend, I take his place’.  These were powerful words.  Could you tell us what you meant by this? And how you felt during this period in your life?

I was living in Cambridge at the time studying theology and hoping to return to Uganda to practice law and continue as a lay preacher. Janani Luwum was murdered because he spoke out for Christian truth against a brutal dictator. My prayer was that God would give me the courage to speak out in the same way.

You say you believe very strongly in the power of prayer. How has it helped you and how can it help others in their lives?

Prayer is entering into the presence of the God who created me, who knows me and who died for me. It is not a therapeutic aid, but rather an entering into the very presence, holiness of God. Prayer is a place to give thanks, to listen and to learn more of God – what greater or higher cause is there?

Are you aware of your great popularity? What about you, in your opinion, makes you such an inspirational figure in the Church?

The media is notoriously fickle and popularity is an ephemera. Look at how popular Jesus was when he entered Jerusalem on a donkey and then see the crowds who called for his Crucifixion. Chasing popularity is a fool’s game and not one that I play. People respond to the truth and if they hear truth they respond to its resonance.

You have achieved a lot in your life so far.  What do you hope to achieve in the future?  What would you like to be remembered for?

Anything I have done has been achieved through God’s grace alone. His plans for me are still unfolding, as they are for each of us who places our lives in His hands. My hope is that I will be remembered as someone who carried out my Heavenly Father’s will to the best of my ability.

Archbishop Rowan Williams has come under fire in the media for not resolving the issue of whether homosexual men should be allowed to become bishops. Where do you stand on the issue?

I stand alongside Archbishop Rowan in taking an orthodox view as set out by the Church of England House of Bishops at the Lambeth conference in 1998 and set out in the Church’s more recent document Some Issues in Human Sexuality: A Guide to the Debate. These documents do a much better job of understanding the debate within the Church than the media headlines.

The public see you and Dr Williams as the two main representatives of the Church in this country. What kind of relationship do you have with him?

A very good one. Rowan is a very saintly man of prayer and of clear vision. At the heart of Rowan, there is a great striving that nobody should be lost.

The recent Panorama documentary Sex crimes and the Vatican made some serious allegations about how the Catholic Church, and in particular Pope Benedict, tried to cover up thousands of cases of child abuse. What was your reaction to the programme? Should there be concern about the possibility of similar practices within the Church of England?

I didn’t see the programme so can’t really comment on its contents. The Church put into place many years ago the safeguards which are now in place in the Roman Catholic Church concerning Child Protection. First and foremost the Church needs to be a place of safety for all.

Which three people from the present or past would you choose to have dinner with and why?

Jesus Christ – my Lord and my God. The apostle Paul – whom I think did great things in living out and following his faith and my wife Margaret who would definitely want to be there if the other two were coming round for dinner!